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1

Montag, 9. Februar 2009, 07:55

Looking for big saved games and consumption data

Hi, I was actually involved in the Ascaron community forums when Patrician III was first released internationally and helped refine the translation, and I thought it would be fun to make a gamefaqs FAQ for the game in English now that the game has been rereleased at GOG.com.

My corny spreadsheets on Production costs may still be circulating...

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out the formulas for how much a city will consume.

I think the following are the salient variables:

1) Size of the three economic classes in the town.
2) Whether the needs for a given product have been filled recently.
3) The season. (It seems people want more timber in the winter?)
4) The location. (Furs and timber are more needed further north?)

Obviously, if only 1 and 2 are important then it's a matter of looking at 3 or more cities of differing sizes that have no supply problems at all and then extrapolating the constants for each product per unit of population for each class via the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra.

For that it would to have a nice contest save with a fully supplied towns with populations of 10k, 20k and 30k. If anyone knows anything about calcing towns demand, I'd love to hear about it!

Thanks.

Amselfass

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2

Montag, 9. Februar 2009, 10:29

Welcome to the forum. :)

As for the consumption data you asked for:

Zitat

1) Size of the three economic classes in the town.


Yes, consumption is different for the three classes.

Zitat

2) Whether the needs for a given product have been filled recently.


Actually, that doesn't matter. Consumption of a certain good will always be the same, regardless of how much there is in the market hall. Only the price is influenced by the market situation.

Zitat

3) The season. (It seems people want more timber in the winter?)


True - the demand for furs and timber is increased by 20 % during winter.

Zitat

4) The location. (Furs and timber are more needed further north?)


No influence.

I think the table you're aiming to create does already exist (at least if I've understood you correctly). ;)

Goods

Rich

Wealthy

Poor

Beer

22,750

45,500

22,750

Pig iron

0,000

0,000

0,000

Ironware

35,000

26,250

8,750

Furs

21,000

10,500

0,000

Fish

1,400

2,800

3,500

Meat

3,850

3,050

0,450

Grain

3,150

4,200

5,250

Spices

1,400

0,700

0,700

Hemp

0,175

0,105

0,070

Timber

2,800

2,800

1,400

Honey

17,500

8,750

1,750

Pottery

10,500

6,300

4,200

Leather

15,400

12,250

1,750

Pitch

0,000

0,000

0,000

Salt

0,350

0,350

0,350

Fish oil

17,500

12,250

3,500

Cloth

17,500

12,250

5,250

Wine

52,500

13,300

0,000

Wool

0,350

1,400

0,700

Bricks

0,035

0,035

0,000



Sorry if the name of one or the other good appears "translated" to you, I don't have the opportunity to check with the international version at the moment.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Amselfass« (9. Februar 2009, 10:31)


3

Montag, 9. Februar 2009, 21:05

AHA!

OK, that looks to be quantity of Goods per thousand in that there table. (Richies eat bricks? I never knew that...)

So the last question is, in a well behaved city will the total population have each of the 3 classes in equal proportion? Also Winter for consumption is December January and February, Just like for the agricultural goods, right?

Steersman

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4

Dienstag, 10. Februar 2009, 02:48

I never realized fur consumption rose in winter.

Now, where do goods disappear to when placed in the market, such as pitch or pig iron, if they are not consumed? And, heaven help me, I just don't want to think what is happening the the hemp ... :260:

The quantity in the marketplace affects contentment, and growth. Recent complete shortage of goods creates problems, especially for employment in your industries.

5

Dienstag, 10. Februar 2009, 04:56

Interesting side note, but Patrician is a Keynesian nightmare waiting to happen if the numbers I have above check out.

Basically, for a poor family of 4 to have all of its needs met costs it ~55 per week. If however Daddy is working as a Pitch squeezer or a Brickmaker or a Warehouse guard, His income is 7 per week, 6.3 presumably after the head tax. The same is true of many other professions, Grain farmers only come home with 16.33 before taxes, and only the big ticket item professions like Furmakers, Blacksmiths, Vintners and so on could hope to be middle class even with a two income household. This is especially true since I'm just assuming that all the variable production costs are wages, which seems a bit odd.

In other words aggregate demand is happening in the game even though nobody can possibly be producing enough income to support that demand, an you are taking out far more gol from the town than you are putting in. Granted, obviously the rich aren't working for you, women an chilren might be working in o jobs too, but the thing should be collapsing since the poor don't have the money to buy what you produce...

Steersman

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6

Dienstag, 10. Februar 2009, 14:14

The rich work too. At least in the game ... :giggle:

And all those captains and sailors earn a pretty penny, too; ever wonder just what activity they spend it on? Let's just say that in Victorian London, it was a leading part time occupation, and ever consider just what all those people wandering around the square are looking for, precisely ... :O

By the way, I usually lower the tax rate to 3%. Reaganomics.

7

Dienstag, 10. Februar 2009, 22:15

Reaganomics would be decreasing the Land Taxes.

But even with all the girls hanging out with the sailors, there just ain't enough money going into the towns. Presumably craftsmen sell things to the contryside...

ANYWAY.

Does anyone know if in a healthy town the various classes settle into a fixed proportion? Luebeck is something like 2:4:7 in my game right now for Rich:Middle: Poor, whereas other towns of the same size seem more bottom heavy.

Amselfass

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8

Freitag, 13. Februar 2009, 17:03

Zitat

OK, that looks to be quantity of Goods per thousand in that there table.

Zitat

Also Winter for consumption is December January and February, Just like for the agricultural goods, right?


That's exactly it. :)

Patrician III does not stick to the laws of economics. The amount of money available to the towns and their inhabitants is infinite. Actually, it's more like a "black hole" principle: money is coming out of nowhere when you sell things and it disappears into nowhere when you buy them. Same goes for the goods itself - the total number of goods available in the Hanseatic League is not necessarily identical to what you and the towns themselves have produced.

Zitat

And all those captains and sailors earn a pretty penny, too;


Not quite, if you don't employ a captain on the ship, one of them earns two. :giggle:

Zitat

Does anyone know if in a healthy town the various classes settle into a fixed proportion?


The whole 2007 contest was about this topic. I think consensus was that there is indeed a fixed limit on the number of richies and wealthies, but the exact value for this hasn't been figured out.

The winning game had like 43 : 32 : 24.

Steersman

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